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From the Desk of Alicia Kennedy
Oct 20, 2026
On Appetite with Alex Ketchum
On Appetite with Alex Ketchum
00:00
30:29
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Transcript
0:00
Thank you so much for taking the time to chat today. How are you? I'm doing well. Thanks for having me. I'm excited to chat. How are things going with Queers at the Table nowadays? It's been really exciting.
0:13
There's been a really positive response to the book. People have been reading it, which is great, 'cause you always want that to happen when a book comes out.
0:22
[laughs] And it's been wonderful to do a bunch of events with the different contributors, 'cause there's 38 of them. Oh, wow.
0:27
So we've been able to do a lot of different kind of events, like animations of the material around different themes in the book. So that's been really exciting. Awesome. Are you guys having another conference?
0:38
Yeah, May 1st through 3rd, 2026. It will be in person in Montreal at McGill University, and hybrid again. So, like, all the panels, everything, that's all online also, and registration opens January 15th, 2026.
0:54
Oh, that's tomorrow as we're speaking. Yeah, yeah. As we're- Now when this is published... yeah, as we're speaking. Yeah. [laughs] But that's so exciting. Yeah. And how...
1:01
Is it, is it difficult to do the conference hybrid? Is, is the tech aspect of it a challenge? Uh, we had it pretty down for the last one.
1:12
It helps because we held that at Boston University where the rooms are really well-equipped. But basically, uh, I'll have, like, owls, like these 360 camera things that help. And so, um, it's not exactly a live stream.
1:27
Like, people watching online can participate somewhat, and then I hire graduate students to be, like, room monitors so they can ask questions from the chat.
1:35
So it just involves having to have more people and have, like, people that are heads of the tech for that day, and then I'm constantly checking in with them. Uh, so it definitely makes it more stressful for me. Yeah.
1:47
But I think for the attendees it's... Like, it doesn't interrupt the in-person experience, and the online people were really able to, like, connect.
1:55
And we have, like, a room on one of the days where everyone's completely online, but people, like, at least at the Boston conference, people actually sat in that room and participated with the virtual folks as well.
2:07
So- Oh, cool... uh, basically everything can be done hybrid except for, of course, like, the eating and the sharing of food. [laughs] But yeah. Yeah. And you have a zine, right, about running an inclusive conference?
2:20
I do, and I actually have a book that came out last week from Microcosm called How to Organize Inclusive Events and Conferences. Oh, cool. So I took my zine and, like, expanded it into a book format. Nice. Awesome.
2:32
Awesome. Well, this is a podcast about appetites, and so can you tell me about where you grew up and what you ate? Yeah, for sure. So I grew up in Southern California.
2:44
I was born in Long Beach, so that's like the southern part of LA County, and I grew up between LA and Orange County, like different parents, different times. Um, yeah, and I lived there until I was 17, 18.
2:57
Um, and in terms of growing up, so a lot of food was, like, Mexican Californian kind of food, um, which is kind of similar to Tex-Mex but a little bit different and I'd say a little bit more on the seafood side of things.
3:09
Uh, my... I was raised pescatarian, uh, 'cause my mom, uh, used to live on a, like, vegetarian commune, but that vegetarianism included fish. So, uh, I've been pescatarian my whole life. Wow.
3:22
Um, yeah, and, uh, that's mostly it. I really like a lot of, like, kind of traditional... I don't know if you'd call it traditional, traditional Southern California food. [laughs] Like, I love frozen yogurt- Yeah...
3:33
and tacos, um [laughs] and salad. I feel like [laughs] I feel like those are like sick cliches of what people think of as traditional Southern Californian foods. Right. But yeah.
3:44
Well, did your mom's experience on the commune influence your future research interests? I don't know.
3:52
[laughs] Um, probably, like, somehow in the back of my mind, 'cause my mom was oftentimes thinking about food, and we had... We did some gardening but, like, not a lot of gardening.
4:02
So it must have in some ways, but I think it was more just the way that she was, like, thinking about food, and she would talk about vegetarianism.
4:09
And growing up as, like, a kid in the '90s, even though vegetarianism wasn't, like, as rare in California, it was still kind of rare for kids to be vegetarian at that time.
4:19
So that, that must have, like, shifted some of my relationships with food and thinking about how I had to, like, explain food to people and stuff. Yeah.
4:28
But I think also just, um, I got to experience some, like, farming work when I was a kid, too. Um, like, even in elementary school, our school would, like, go to farms and stuff. So that probably all had an impact.
4:42
And I really liked my American history courses, and I was interested by Thomas Jefferson's idea- [laughs]... of an agrarian society, which, like, I'm not, I'm not, like, a stan of the Founding Fathers.
4:53
[laughs] Let me make that clear. Like, I'm, like, a queer feminist that, like, really has a lot of issues, um [laughs], with, you know, the Founding Fathers.
5:01
But it was something that it was like, oh, I have to be involved in my university's organic farm when I go to university, um, because I wanted to see, like, what that would be like more. Yeah.
5:12
Well, how would you describe your appetite today? Hmm. In terms of, like, what I'm craving, I was really craving bread. [laughs] Um, 'cause I, I start almost every morning by making breakfast tacos.
5:24
That's, like, my go-to. Um, I eat it pretty much every morning, but sometimes that can be a little light. So, uh, and it had been a couple days since I'd had, like, really hearty bread.
5:35
So there's a place in my neighborhood that has, like, a really thick, hearty loaf, so I ate that with some vegetables, and it was great, 'cause I got gifted some, uh, really nice olive oil over the holidays.
5:47
And yeah, excellent. What do you usually put in your breakfast tacos? Um, so I have a couple types. My, a go-to is, like, cream cheese and smoked salmon and olives, and then I make different, like, salsas.
6:00
So it depends kind of what's seasonal, and when I'm in the mood for, so I make a salsa verde, or I, like, will grill, like, canned pineapple for it, and then, like, cilantro.
6:10
Um, fresh lime here in Canada, where I'm, like, speaking from, is, like, quite expensive, but sometimes you can get a deal on lime.
6:18
Um, yeah, and I also, um, make my own, um, like, pickled red onion, so that will go in, different olive. So it kind of changes, and then sometimes, like, eggs and stuff as well, so. Yeah.
6:29
But yeah, I like the corn tortilla as, like, a go-to start of the day. [laughs] How has being in Montreal influenced the way you eat at all, if it has? Yeah, I'd say there's a few things.
6:40
One, uh, produce is a lot more expensive in Canada in general, just, like, food. We have to import a lot of stuff. Like, there are some products here that are cheaper than, like, where I grew up.
6:49
Like, maple syrup here is quite cheap. [laughs] Um- [laughs]... not to get that cliche, but- [laughs]... Quebec has, like, a lot of maple syrup. Yeah. Um, and then I...
6:59
So in winter and stuff, sometimes there's less access to produce.
7:05
Um, but we also have some really cool farming networks, so I've, like, been part of a CSA, community supported agriculture, for, I wanna say six years now maybe, and that's, like, this cool queer and trans-owned farm.
7:17
So I get a lot of local produce from them, like, in the summer and fall months. I eat a lot more squash. Uh, I also lived in Connecticut for four years when I did my undergrad, so that really got me into squash more.
7:29
Um, yeah, and then there's, like, some things are way harder to get.
7:33
So we do have, like, a larger, like, Mexican and Latin American community that's been growing over the years, but when I first moved here it was really hard to get corn tortillas, so I had to, like, make them a lot more often myself.
7:45
And just some things are harder to get, but over time I've kind of learned most of the places I can get stuff. Yeah. I love Montreal so much, um, and dining in Montreal a lot. But I can't...
7:58
I don't know, yeah, what it would l- be like to actually have to, to cook and buy your food there. Yeah. It's generally, like... I mean, it's basically where I feel like I've been an adult.
8:08
Y- I moved here in 2012, so I moved here when I was 22, so it's been, like, where I've spent most of my life, like- Yeah...
8:14
buying, you know, like, of those decisions where I had a bit more freedom, um, of what I was going to buy and cook. Um, but yeah, there are some things. Like, the restaurant scene is really big here.
8:26
Like, I think we have the most restaurants per capita in North America. But, uh, you know, I went... I moved to Montreal for grad school, so it's not like I was really- Yeah... dining on- [laughs]... out at those places.
8:38
Um, but yeah, but we do have, like, a wide variety of foods, and then kind of some traditional Quebecois foods are, like, interesting as well. Um, and there's a lot of, like, vegetarian and vegan interpretations- Yeah...
8:50
of things like poutine and stuff, so. Yeah. Did you know French moving there, or? I, a, a little bit.
8:59
So I worked on organic farms in Ireland after my first year of university, and while I was working on these farms I was, like, WWOOF-ing, so, like, the willing workers on organic farms, and I met all these people from France who were there, and they were like, "Come visit us next summer."
9:14
So, uh, I, like, then started taking French classes in my second year of university, and then I went to work on farms in France that next summer, but none of them were there 'cause they all went to Australia to work on farms in Australia.
9:26
[laughs] But that's kind of how I started wor- learning French, was working on these, um, farms and taking a few classes. But Quebecois French is also quite different. Right.
9:35
So, um, and you know, learning and speaking French is a lifelong journey- [laughs]... because it is a complicated language- Yeah...
9:44
um, even for people where it's their first language, like grammatically especially for formal writing. Um, but yeah, over the years I've gotten better. [laughs] Is it an obstacle to living there, that, that you're-
9:58
That I'm not a, uh, Francophone first? Yeah, yeah. Um, yeah. The politics of language in Quebec are really, um, particular.
10:06
So in many places in the world, if you speak French, even if it's not your first language, you're still considered a Francophone. That's not the case here.
10:13
Oftentimes it's that your grandparents were Francophone, um, is, like, kind of like an understanding of Francophone identity, but even that's, like, debated. Montreal is a very multilingual city. Yeah.
10:24
Um, but language politics are, like, a huge part of discussion. Um, and then, like, the provincial politics, it's, like, language is a big thing. We have a literal language police that, like- Yeah...
10:34
gives out fines if the, like, font on a sign in English is the same size or bigger than the French. So it, there's like, there's a lot of things.
10:43
Like, and it actually really impacts restaurants, bars, and menus, um, because, uh, it's a big cost every time they adjust the rules. Yeah. They have to change all their signage and print material. So yeah.
10:55
And it means that also in the restaurant industry, um, like, every server is expected to speak English and French. Like, it's kind of like the minimum requirement for most things. Yeah.
11:05
Um, and it can be really hard to get, like, a lot of jobs here if you don't have at least a solid understanding of French. No, it's so interesting to me because obviously in Puerto Rico there are a lot of...
11:16
There are some parallels between Quebec and, and Puerto Rico situationally, [laughs] politically, situationally. But in Puerto Rico, when you
11:25
have any sort of accent in your Spanish that shows you're, you grew up speaking English, they will switch immediately to English. Mm.
11:33
And when we've been in Quebec, we start, [laughs] we start in French and we very quickly hit... I'm, I'm trying to learn more French, but we quickly hit a wall with our French. But people- Mm-hmm...
11:46
are continuing to speak French, and we're like, "Oh, that's very different." It's very, it's a very- Mm...
11:50
interesting difference in terms of, like, that, the, the sense of- How many people actually understand your language. And I wish that- Yeah... in Puerto Rico people would not switch to English immediately- Mm...
12:02
because it's really, I mean, especially for folks of the diaspora, it's, like, very emotionally [laughs] difficult because even if- Mm... you grew up in New York and you have a...
12:11
Even if you just have a conversational Spanish, people really grate at the idea of speaking Spanish- Yeah...
12:17
with someone who has a- any sort of accent that shows them to be an outsider in some way, which is, it's always- Yeah... such an interesting dynamic. That's why I ask. That's why I'm interested in how the experience-
12:29
Yeah. Yeah. It's interesting you have that experience because most anglophones in Montreal would say that people switch on them instantly.
12:35
And my friends who are Acadian and French was their first language, people switch on them. That's so interesting. They're like, "Well, French is my first language."
12:41
But if you're outside of Montreal, like in the regions or even Quebec City- Yeah... or Trois-Rivières and stuff, people, uh, not everyone has English, so they- Yeah... can't switch.
12:50
So I lived in rural Quebec for one summer, and, like, no one could switch, so it was actually great- Yeah... 'cause then, like, I just had to stay in it. But yeah, it depends what neighborhood you're in- For sure...
13:00
and, like, who you're interacting with as well.
13:03
But it can be hard for folks who, like, want to pick up more, uh, French because people switch on them, and there are a lot of feelings and politics about that, of like- Yeah...
13:14
whose French is the right one, and then for, like, people from France or Belgium, there's, like, a lot of fighting about the right type of French.
13:21
And sometimes, like, Francophones from other countries and Francophones from Quebec will refuse to speak French to each other, and they'll speak English. Wow.
13:29
Um, there's like s- Fr- like, every language is political, but the- Yeah... politics around French is, like, so heated, and especially here. And there's like...
13:39
The government has targeted the English school boards and the English universities, so it's like a really, it's just an ongoing contentious issue around- Yeah... the language.
13:47
Um, but I feel like the city of Montreal, we, like, overall as a city- Yeah... um, like, you can never fully define, and everyone's an individual, but there is a lot more respect for having different- Yeah...
13:58
languages, and I think it's something that's really beautiful because here I feel like a lot of us speak Franglais, like, all the time. Yeah.
14:05
So it's, like, a pretty common situation for people switch mid-sentence and to switch back and forth as the sentence goes on in a very fluid way. Yeah. And it's especially fun to watch teenagers do this- Mm...
14:15
because, like, you know, a lot of people are speaking, like, multiple languages simultaneously, and I think it's one of the things that makes our, uh, city really cool.
14:26
But politicians don't always understand that- [laughs]... 'cause it's a way to divide people, being like, "Oh, no, French is, like, going to be wiped out," and stuff like that, so. Yeah. No.
14:35
No, it's always so interesting. Language politics are very, very fascinating, especially in, like, these very bilingual places where the, the- Mm-hmm... languages are in tension every single day. In, in even- Yeah...
14:46
the most banal interactions, there's- Yeah... there's language politics present in how it goes down. Um, so how, who has had the biggest influence on how you eat, and why? Hmm. I love this question.
15:00
[laughs] Okay, I think, like, in terms of, like, my mom, just because, you know, she, like, fed, breastfed me, chestfed me, like, that obviously shaped [laughs] me- [laughs]... um, to some degree, right?
15:11
She was the first person to feed me. Uh, but she doesn't actually like to cook and has kind of a strange relationship with food.
15:19
I mean, Southern California culture around kind of, like, eat, disordered eating and- Yeah... stuff can be really intense. Um, but I think that was, like, really formative around food.
15:29
Um, and then I think it was, like, food writers were really important for me, kind of like the slow food movement and the Michael Pollans of it all. Yeah.
15:38
I'm not saying that those folks are still influential on me- [laughs]... but they were really influential on me when I was, like, 17 to, like, 20. Yeah.
15:46
Because I was like, "Oh, wow, these people are writing about food," and it felt very exciting to read these texts.
15:52
So I think, like, and Barbara Kingsolver's work and stuff, I was just reading all these kind of food politics books, and I had founded a living community called Farmhouse, um, which is a food politics, like, themed house that still exists at Wesleyan, where I went to university.
16:05
So it, I was reading a lot of that stuff, so I think that was, like, another round of shaping my stuff.
16:11
And then in grad school, um, I started reading more, like, academic texts around kinda, like, food studies and food history. So that was kind of like another wave of food influence.
16:21
Um, and then I got really into, like, cookbook history, and I co-founded the Historical Cooking Project, and I was, like, cooking through all these cookbooks.
16:28
So I think it's, like, at different stages of time, like, who has impacted me. Yeah. And it's kind of like that keeps changing, like, how I adapt and then also what's going on in my life and other, like,
16:40
career or, like, school decisions I've made too. And then there's also, like, the general themes. Like, for a while, like, everyone was reading Michael Pollan, right? Yeah. So, like- Yeah.
16:49
[laughs] Well, you know, for you in food studies, who, who has been the most important in that, in that discipline for you? Yeah.
17:00
Okay, so, like, for folks who, like, don't know my work, so I do, like, queer labor history, like feminist labor history, and I kinda split it into food stuff and tech stuff.
17:09
And so, uh, so some of it has been a lot of kind of the feminist writings about, like, household work, and some of those, like, early, like, both historical and sociological, like, I'm just thinking of, like, Arlie Hochschild's work on Second Shift.
17:23
And then also kind of a lot of, um, also the activist writers in the '70s kind of... I don't like the, like, calling things, like, waves of feminism- Yeah...
17:32
'cause there's issues with that, but second wave feminist writings about, like, domestic work and household work, um, and those kinds of critiques, like Pat Mainardi's work and stuff like that. Um,
17:44
but I also think in kind of the food studies realm, there's, like, some historians whose work I really respect, like Rachel Hope Cleves's work. She just did this awesome book called Lustful Appetites.
17:55
That's, like, a newer text, but I really like some of the writers who have, like, gone through kind of like- They just, like, really go through, like, the archival materials and or oral histories. Yeah.
18:06
I think also, um, [lips smack]
18:09
you know, there were some texts that it was just, like, the first time I had read something that was, like, an academic history food studies book that, like, again, now there's, like, critiques of the work.
18:18
But, like, Sidney Mintz's Sweetness and Power- Yeah... I think was really cool of just thinking, like, "Oh yeah, following this one substance and understanding how it shifts the world."
18:28
So some of it's, like, food in terms of, like, with labor history, and then some of it's, like, just these texts that, like, changed the way I was thinking about how food can impact things.
18:37
So books like Thousand Years Over a Hot Stove and, yeah, If For... Like, in my background there's, like, just there's shelves of, like, all of these different- Yeah. [laughs]... um, different books. Yeah, so.
18:50
Well, which is your favorite meal of the day? Oh, like, in time of da- in terms of time of day? Yeah. Um, oh. I mean, that probably changes every day. [laughs] But I do really look forward to breakfast. Yeah.
19:04
I love, I love my tacos that we talked about. Um, because I start every day by taking my dog, Sprout, who's in the background here too. Uh, he's, like, this massive husky mix, um, [laughs] 75 pound now.
19:16
And we go for a run, and then I do yoga, and then I finally get to have breakfast. So it's, like, I just am so excited for it.
19:24
Um, and I do like cooking other meals, but sometimes when it comes to dinner time I'm very tired. So my relationship with dinner sometimes feels like drudgery, but- Yeah... yeah.
19:35
But if it's, like, a shared dinner with friends, then it's, like, a nice social meal. Yeah. So I guess it's, if it's favorite in terms of who I'm sharing it with, but if it, if I'm by myself, it, I guess it's breakfast.
19:46
Yeah. Do you have a favorite meal to eat outside the house? Oh. I mean, okay, so I'm kind of, like, a boring person to go to restaurants with- [laughs]...
19:55
because I kind of have, like, the thing I like to order at each restaurant. Yeah. So I'm like, "Oh, I'm really craving this one dish."
20:01
I'll, I'll sometimes try other things on the menu, but, like, I'm like, "Okay, like, at this place I'm gonna, like, get this type of ramen they have because their garlic is the best," or, like, at this one.
20:14
Um, again, like, I'm really open to lots of different cuisines. Basically, if the restaurant has some type of vegetarian option or pescatarian option.
20:24
Um, and then I have, like, different, you know, there's, like, this amazing Lebanese place, Che Tatta, here. There's a great Ethiopian place, Queen of Sheba.
20:32
There's this cool, like, small chain, there's, like, two of them, Lola Rosa, which is this awesome, like, vegan place. Um, yeah. So I don't... Yeah, there's so many great cuisines. I honestly just feel
20:47
so excited when I eat out- Yeah... because I don't do it that often, that it feels like such a wonderful treat. I feel like I'm often, when I'm going out for, like, a, something to dine on, I guess, it's, like, coffee.
21:01
Yeah. Like, that feels like more of, like, a more regular thing to socialize over. But if I'm going, like, socialize over food and have dinner, it feels, like, really amazing. But yeah, I'm pretty open.
21:12
I like most spice levels, unless it's, like, really, really spicy- [laughs]... just 'cause I'll have an upset tummy. And I'm not super into s- fried food, but I like some fried food. So I don't know.
21:22
I just love to try, try new things, but not necessarily try new things at that restaurant. Right, right, right. If that makes sense. [laughs] I'm like, "Oh, no. This was so good. I have to have it again."
21:32
But I like when other people go so I can eat it off their plates and try. [laughs] I wish that I did not like fried food as much as I do.
21:39
[laughs] I feel like that's something where it's, like, oh, I wi- like, I could eat french fries every single day of my entire life. But yeah, I, I'm, I'm envious of your appetite in that regard. Uh, [laughs]
21:54
so for you, is cooking a political act? Oh yeah, for sure. I mean, I believe the base thing of everything being political. Yeah.
22:03
But in terms of, like, um, my personal cooking, and then kind of cooking more structurally, like, and more broadly, like, in terms of, like, who's doing the labor of cooking, like, my...
22:13
What really got me into kind of a lot of food history and work was I was really looking at, like, cooking as unpaid labor that, like, maintains society, and, like, a very, like, kind of, like, Marxist labor perspective.
22:23
That's, like, kind of how I approached it when I was an undergrad. And I would call it, like, food's gender problem, like, the history of unremunerated domestic food production. [laughs] You know, I was, um...
22:36
I thought that sounded fancy when I was, like, 21. Um, but I do see, like, the act of who's f- feeding people, how food is used to care for people, the work of farm workers, the whole restaurant system.
22:47
So I wrote a book called Ingredients for Revolution, which is the history of feminist restaurants, cafes, and coffee houses, and the people who ran those spaces.
22:54
From 1972 onward they're, like, really thinking about, like, the roles of everyone in the kitchen, and were raising the kinds of discussions that, like, now we see kind of in more, like, gourmet dining about, like, open kitchens and fair compensation.
23:07
But, like, every aspect of food is political, and making that food, and preserving that food, and cleaning up that food, and dealing with the waste.
23:15
So, um, and then, like, on an individual act I see, like, cooking as a huge part of, like, also my community work because it's the way that I, like, care for people and feed people.
23:25
Um, and, like, trying to, like, look out for folks in my neighborhood and, like, make sure that I'm bringing them food too.
23:31
So I see, like, kind of on every, every level, but it's also art- like, part of my, I guess, artistic and creative practice too. Yeah. Um, mostly around, like, baking I would say in my, in terms of the creativity side.
23:44
What do you like to bake? Um, so I've gone through phases. I got really obsessed with pie making in early stages of the pandemic. So, um, there's the Sister Pie cookbook, and I cooked every single pie in it. Wow.
23:57
And it's, there's a lot. Yeah. I, like, put myself... I wanted to, like, get better at making pies 'cause I was bad at it, so I'm like, "I'll put myself through this, like, master class, through this, like..."
24:06
Like, it was not one style of pie making, but it's still, like, one approach. Yeah. Um, I previously worked at, like, a wedding cake and special e- events bakery, so I did a lot of that kind of, like, fondant stuff.
24:18
So I'm kind of burnt out on that. But, uh, yeah, I just really like, uh... At some points I really liked the decoration, but now it's more of just, like, "Can I play with flavors?"
24:28
There's this great, uh, cookbook zine called, um, At the Heart of the Panadería. Hmm. And, uh- Oh, yeah, Theresa Penny. Yeah. Yeah, and she, uh, uses, like, masa harina in a lot of stuff.
24:40
And so, um, inspired by her zine, I've been, like, playing with, like, using masa harina in, like, more recipes. So I have, like, a chocolate chip cookie recipe that uses it.
24:49
I'm just like, "What can I throw this in- [laughs]... and, like, try?" Um, so yeah, so that's been kind of fun.
24:56
So I do like trying to, like, do some experimentation, and I guess, I guess you could say recipe development, but it- it's just for myself.
25:03
And I've shared some of them with her, 'cause I'm like, "Oh, this was, this was how the cookies came out." [laughs] But yeah. I just interviewed Theresa the other day about, about baking and, and that sort of a thing.
25:13
Also, Kia Mastroianni, uh, in North, North Carolina, she just came out with an, a pie zine specific to, to pie. And- Okay, cool... so I think I'm going to...
25:24
Similar story to you, I am terrible at making pie, even though I used to be, like, have a bakery, but I hated making pie. Like, hated it. Mm-hmm. Just felt nothing for it.
25:34
And I really do, I think that's a really great idea, to put yourself through a, a really difficult pie masterclass. [laughs] Yeah. It was great. And now I can just, like, touch, like, the flour and I, like- Yes...
25:46
know what it needs. Yes. 'Cause I got used to it.
25:48
[laughs] But the, like, pro tip from the, if you're, you know, making a butter, all butter, uh, pie crust, pie dough, um, that was, like, in the, um, in the Sister Pie book, was, like, that it should look like Parmesan.
26:02
Like, you know- Hmm... like the, like, the chew. Yeah. And it was like, that's just, like, such a simple tell, but it was, like, the best explanation.
26:10
And I feel like those kinds of, like, little tips every once in a while, those are game changers. Yeah. You know? Then you are like, "Oh, this is how it should feel and smell and...
26:19
" Yeah, so but I also am, like, big into watching, like, YouTube series of cooking and- Yeah... you know. I've gone, like, up and down with different, different channels- [laughs]...
26:28
uh, 'cause of the internal politics around them. Right. Uh, but I've definitely, that's also been helpful for kind of informing some of my baking. Yeah.
26:37
No, I'm always on YouTube for, like, the weirdest v- like, handheld iPhone video of, like, how to get a pit out of a very specific tropical fruit or something like that. [laughs] Like- Oh, nice. Nice...
26:48
and it's always, like, some lady is, like, she's, you know, very...
26:53
This work is very, very helpful and it's very important, but it's always really funny 'cause it's always, like, there's, like, a flash on, on [laughs] the fruit in a dark kitchen and, and it's like- Yes...
27:02
okay, I'm so glad that we have YouTube for, for this- Yeah... kind of stuff. The funny thing, talking about pie reminds me of Bloodroot, because when I interviewed them, they were making pie.
27:13
I think they were always talking about their pie crust. They talked about their pie crust in The New York Times and everything like that. And they recently closed. You know- Mm-hmm... and I know that they were- Yeah...
27:22
a big part of, of your, your first big, big publication, um, Ingredients for Revolution. You know, how have you, how did you take that news? [laughs] How did you feel? Yeah. So they closed December 20th.
27:36
They opened in 1977. Yeah. So no matter what, what a successful run. Exactly. Like, it's so amazing. Um, I feel like the closure ha- I felt emotionally strange about it. Yeah.
27:49
Because, like, I wasn't necessarily surprised after Selma, um, one of, like, the founders, passed away. Um, and it was, like, a lot on Noel. And, like, I mean, the business never really made money. Yeah.
28:00
Like, that wasn't, like, the goal. But also just, like, running a restaurant also, you know, that's such an undertaking, a restaurant bookstore.
28:09
Um, and so, like, I wasn't necessarily surprised, but there was just kind of this, like, melancholy. But it was also beautiful to see the outpouring of support- Yeah... and love and excitement from people.
28:22
So, and I also live quite far away from it. Yeah.
28:25
But I feel especially strange because I was in, like, Boston and I was taking the train to New York because I was, like, promoting the new book, Queers at the Table, and I passed by Bridgeport on the train, and I, like, didn't have enough time to, like, you know...
28:43
I didn't plan to, like- Yeah... go to Bridgeport, you know, get to Black- the Black Rock neighborhood and stuff to visit. And I'm just like, "Oh, no, now I'll never be able to again." So, uh, I feel mixed. Yeah.
28:57
I kind of regret that I didn't, like, build in time. But, um, it was, it was a really important place for me. I visited the first time when I was an undergrad.
29:05
A friend mentioned it 'cause I was into feminist stuff, history and food, and was like, "Hey, you should check out this place." And then it, like, changed my whole, whole life.
29:13
But it is interesting that you mentioned their, them bringing up the pie recipe, 'cause for me, what really stands out is their sourdough chocolate devastation cake. Hmm. That's been the one that's, like...
29:23
They made it for me when I finished my honors thesis. I, like, got a friend to give me a ride.
29:27
Like, I'd interviewed them for that thesis, and I came and I brought them copies of the thesis, and they gave me a piece of cake to celebrate. And I, like, baked a cupcake version to that cake when I defended my PhD.
29:39
Oh, wow. Like, it's just been a, like, really important, uh, recipe for me, and I think because they shared it with me as a form of celebration. And it's cool 'cause it's a cake that uses sourdough, which is- Exactly.
29:49
That's super cool. Yeah. Awesome. Yeah. So yeah. So I don't know. I feel, I feel mixed about it, but I hope Noel gets to have some peace and relax and enjoy some time without the stress of running a restaurant.
30:04
And I hope... I know that I saw some of the folks who worked there were looking for other jobs and positions, so I hope they were able to, um, get lined up with a good, good job and feeling supported and cared for. Yeah.
30:17
Well, thank you so much, Alex, for taking the time today. Thank you so much for having me. This was really, really fun. And now I feel hungry, even though- [laughs]...
30:24
I just had lunch 'cause we talked about all this amazing food.
From the Desk of Alicia Kennedy
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