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Mar 3, 2026
On Appetite with Ashanté M. Reese
On Appetite with Ashanté M. Reese
00:00
17:03
Transcript
0:00
But thank you so much for being here, Ashanti Thank you for inviting me. So I have been looking at Gather, and it is such a stunning book that I- Mm-hmm... am so excited to be, have in the world.
0:14
But I wanted to ask, because I'm always asking academics this, academics who are good writers, you know, for you, where does the food writing and the food scholarship, where do they meet? That is a great question.
0:26
[laughs] And also, thank you for saying I'm a good writer. [laughs] Because sometimes I am not sure.
0:32
Um, as you probably know, like, academia doesn't teach you to be a good writer, and so I think the first response to that question for me is really about storytelling.
0:43
Yeah Deciding that, um, r- for me, deciding that I wanted to be a good storyteller. And for me, food tells so many stories. You can go in so many... It makes the job easier to me, right?
0:56
Um, and so the intersection feels like, where are the stories and where might I join it with some sort of structural commentary or critique. Yeah. So yeah.
1:08
And did you want to be a writer, or did that emerge out of your scholarship of- Oh, no, 100%. [laughs] I tell people all the time that writer was the first identity I chose for myself. I was in second grade.
1:20
We were supposed to say what we wanted to be when we grew up, and I stood up and I was the only person who said writer. [laughs] So, and I'm sure, like, my peers are like, "What does that even mean?" [laughs] Yeah.
1:32
[laughs] Like, "How do you... What do you mean? You're supposed to be a doctor or a lawyer or something." Um, but I remember that moment quite vividly. Um, and I had a,
1:40
an elementary school principal, I would take stories that I would write to her, and she laminated them into what I call my first book. [laughs] Aw. She took them all and was like, "This is your first book."
1:50
That's amazing. And so where did academia come in? How did that, how did it kind of catch you? Yeah, I think it's equal parts, like, I like reading and studying, and, um,
2:05
the other part was I, at, at some point in my, in my high school journey, I was int- I was introduced to Zora Ne- Zora Neale Hurston as a writer- Mm-hmm... and so had kind of clung to her as a writer.
2:19
By the time I got to college, I also understood now that she was doing this thing called anthropology that I had no clue what it was. But I did have this sense of like, wow, if she did this academic study,
2:32
maybe something about that helped her be a good writer. That was my thinking as a 20-year-old. Mm-hmm. And so I think that's w- the first place where I started thinking maybe academia.
2:41
And then secondly, I was always interested in social justice kinds of things.
2:47
And to be quite honest with you, I was thinking, "If I'm a Black woman with a PhD, maybe I can do some good things in the world with it, um, use these kind of research thinking skills toward making the world better."
2:59
So- Yeah... yeah. Well, can you tell me about where you grew up and what you ate? Yes. Um, so deep East Texas, or East Texas, not so deep, um, Crockett, small town of 75...
3:13
Well, actually, it's less than 7,500 people now. Population is dwindling. Um, I grew up in a very rural area, even outside of that town.
3:23
And so my grandmother, who lived next door, she grew a lot of things that we ended up eating. Um, it was the quintessential, people talk about like, oh, the old days when people- Mm...
3:32
didn't lock their doors, I'm like, "I'm not that old, and that's how I grew up." [laughs] Um, so it was definitely that kind of community. Um, and I've been spending a lot of time thinking about this.
3:41
Like, people talk a lot about fast food, and fast food was not a big part of my life. Actually, fast food factored in mostly, um, because I was an athlete. Yeah.
3:54
And a lot of times after games and stuff, we would stop to get something quick to eat. But in my daily life, there was a lot of cooking. I learned to cook early,
4:04
um, even just short things like my grandmother, um, would cook, like, mackerel from the can. So that was one that I, that's one of the things I learned to cook from her very early. Um, she,
4:18
yeah, I keep mentioning my grandmother 'cause my, my mother worked a lot, and so my grandmother was a, a big caretaker for, for us. She's the person I learned how to make biscuits from. Um, yeah, like we,
4:31
we ate a lot of things that required cooking and not- Yeah... a lot of prepackaged things, even though we, I would say, even though I don't think any of the adults in my life had time to really- Yeah...
4:43
honestly really be doing all this cooking, but they did. Um, and then later, as we got older, we did a lot of it, too. Yeah. Well, who has had the biggest influence on how you eat, and why?
4:57
Yeah, um, can I tell you a funny story? Yeah. [laughs] Okay.
5:01
Because, um, I would love to say, like, I mean, certainly how I grew up, but by the time I went to graduate school, um, I was exposed to, like, lots of different kinds of people and, and et cetera. And, um,
5:16
as a part of my commitment to the food world, I was like, "I'm going to become vegetarian, then I'm gonna become vegan." So part of my grad school, I was vegan.
5:28
And I remember having this moment where I was co-organizing this public anthropology conference, and, um, one of my cohort members, who's my really dear friend, w- as we were talking about the food piece, um, she's also vegan.
5:44
But I would describe her as a militant vegan. I mean, nothing, yeah, you're shaking your head, so I know you know what I mean. I know. [laughs] Like nothing mattered outside of that.
5:53
And I remember that being a real wor- moment where I was like, oh, this level of privilege that is, uh, not always, but in this moment attached to veganism such that it was, we couldn't see anything outside of it, was so jarring.
6:08
And I went to go have a hamburger after that meeting. [laughs] Which was not a good idea. No. But it was like this moment where I was like-Oh, man, like, um, am I clear about why I'm choosing veganism?
6:22
Right And if, if I'm not, like, if I am, okay, can I articulate that? And if I'm not, then what do I think this means about me?
6:30
That was such a pivotal moment because it started helping me think about integrating things from my different class experiences, like growing up slash now being in grad school, just cultural experiences.
6:42
And, you know, even when I was vegan, my mom, when- I remember one time going home and we were going to the grocery store, and she's like, "Okay, well, get whatever it is you want."
6:50
I was like, "You know, whatever, just cook." And she l- she said, "I don't know what to cook for you anymore." And that was a real eye-opening moment- Yeah... as someone who thinks a lot about how food connects us.
7:03
It was a moment where I was like, oh, food, how what I'm choosing is not bad, but it is potentially creating barriers in ways- Yeah... that I don't want, and I didn't realize that.
7:14
So I think, like, certainly my upbringing, the desire to be connected to other people through food, I think all the things I've learned and studied about the food system, many of them do not spark joy.
7:25
[laughs] So that has, has had an influence on me. Um, and then I have a collection, a pretty good collection of cookbooks. And so I would say, like,
7:37
Black, um, Black women chefs and cookbook authors have really influenced me, like, through their storytelling and the recipes that they, they share. So yeah, I think those are my main influences.
7:50
Well, I think that that was just a good argument against militant veganism. [laughs] Where it's like, there's nothing that'll make you want a burger more than being in a room with a militant vegan. Oh my gosh.
8:01
[laughs] I had never experienced such a-- I mean, it was so visceral.
8:04
Um, and this was after I'd watched-- Again, this is someone I'm still really good friends with, but this was after I'd watched her throw out cow's milk- Mm... like, whole containers, um- Yeah...
8:16
as an expression of her commitment to veganism. And in my mind, I was thinking, "But oh my goodness, like, isn't part of what we're also supporting is choice and people- Yeah... making educated choices, certainly." Yeah.
8:30
But, like, they're making a choice. And, and also, holy moly, waste? Like, we're [laughs] just gonna go throw this away. Like, so it was just a real visceral moment for me, where I was like, all of this is messy.
8:44
We're all making- Yes... individual choices in an unethical system. We're doing the best that we can. And that really taught me a lot about having a l- having grace for other people. No, absolutely.
8:57
It's so, it's so important to just accept the messiness, which is something that's difficult to communicate sometimes. Yeah. For sure. Because I-- Yeah.
9:05
I think people on both sides of that are, are reluctant to, to see the messiness, whether it's- Yeah... you know, people who don't wanna think about food and people who do wanna do the best that they possibly can.
9:16
It's, that's- Yeah... that's on those extreme ends, we lose the, the humanity of it that's so important. I think that's right. Yeah. Yeah. Well, how would you describe your appetite today? Oh, man.
9:30
Uh, I would describe my appetite as curious. Like, I'm pretty open to trying most new things, um, at least once. Um, I would describe it as, like, man, I love a, like,
9:48
a decadent meal. Yeah. I just love, I love, like, I, I, I want all the courses. Give me all the pretty details. Yeah. I, I love that.
9:58
I mean, I'm probably the, you know, textbook, you know, eating with your eyes first person, because I just love pretty, pretty things. Um, I gravitate a lot towards sweetness in my meals.
10:10
Um, I love-- And it's, you know, as I'm working on a project about sugar, that brings up complicated things. Yeah. But I, I am very, very drawn toward, um, sweetness.
10:22
I think lately, I'm trying to think of, like, something that I ate recently that I really, really enjoyed. Um, hmm. Oh, I have this, um,
10:35
I have a, a food subscription service with, like, cooked food from chefs, local chefs. And, um, I had the best cabbage recently. Ooh, they're saying it's the year of cabbage. Is it? Yeah. [laughs] Okay.
10:49
Well, I am here for it. It was the best cabbage I have had maybe ever, but certainly in, that I can remember. And I was just like, "Wow, I didn't know that I liked cabbage this much."
11:01
Um, so that was something that really caught me off guard in the best, in the best way. Um, and then on the sweet side, I bake a lot. Um, and
11:14
lately I've kind of been into perfecting mini Bundt cakes- Ooh. [laughs]... which has been really fun.
11:22
Um, and so one that I really, really liked recently was, like, a strawberry cream Bundt cake situation, which was really nice. Um, and then lastly, I would say appetite-wise, um, this is kinda both metaphor and literal.
11:38
I've been really thinking a lot about waste and preservation and how we use things, and so I've been canning. Oh, cool. Um, and that is not something I've ever done before. This is a new thing, and it's really fun.
11:52
And the first thing I canned was, um, um, chow chow, 'cause I wrote about it in Gather. And I was like, but I, I want to, like, practice this and perfect this.
12:02
So I, I worked on a recipe for it and, like, started canning it. And it's just been really fun. Awesome.
12:08
But it was a really beautiful way of thinking about how, like-We can be preserving things now for appetites to come. Yes. Um, and, and I don't know. It just...
12:19
canning, something about canning made that feel really literal and visceral to me in a beautiful way. Yeah. No, and I think it's so interesting how we reclaim these, these practices and- Mm-hmm...
12:32
and, and, you know, remake them for ourselves. And the ways in which I f- you know, I think in the US we've been really... a lot of the mainstream message has been, you know, don't can, don't... you know, waste. Mm.
12:46
Waste everything. Um, and so- Mm-hmm... uh, 'cause there's always more. There's always gonna be more. Yeah. You can always go buy more.
12:52
And so I do think, like it's just such a, it's such a great proposition to, to get back to that, of course, on like that just very obvious level of preventing waste.
13:02
But I think also just imaginatively, like just kind of getting into the, the accepting what we have- Yeah... and making it better. Yes.
13:11
And, you know, and, and saying, "I can have tomatoes in the winter if I just do this, this little bit of extra work now." Right. And that sort of a thing.
13:19
And, and kind of coming, reclaiming the labor of, of food as a, as an important sort of- Yes... craft. Yeah. And an important everyday craft. Yes. Right? Like that it...
13:30
Yes, there will be people who are elevated- Yeah... in their labor, kind of elevated in certain ways. But like, I think that was the other cool thing about the canning piece.
13:41
I'm like, wow, I'm, I'm just using tools that I already have mostly. Yeah. I j- I had to buy some jars, but that's pretty much it. Um, in my kitchen and kind of doing it in between times of work and rest.
13:55
And that was, I don't know, like I, I'm so deeply moved by the things that we do on an everyday basis- Yeah... that we don't see as making a life, but they really are the building blocks of making a life. Absolutely.
14:09
Yeah. Yeah. Well, which is your favorite meal of the day, and, and what's your favorite meal to eat outside the house? Ooh. And- Favorite meal of the day. Yeah. Um, I'm gonna say dinner. Nice.
14:23
And yeah, I think dinner, I think because of what I said earlier about decadence. Yes.
14:29
[laughs] For, for whatever reason, we give ourselves permission to [laughs] like have decadent dinners in a way that maybe I don't always see with breakfast and lunch.
14:38
And my favorite thing to eat outside of the house, um, sometimes this is geography specific so like, for example, I always complain about being in Austin and not feeling like I get really good Caribbean food. Mm.
14:52
So I tend to eat it less outside the house. Um, but I love curries and I love ramen. So I think- Nice... I think of those two things as things that I don't think I have a skill set in making really well.
15:07
And so I gravitate toward those outside of the house. And then of course I live in Austin, and tacos are always on the menu. Yeah. Yeah. That's amazing.
15:15
[laughs] Yeah, I think, you know, ramen and curries, those are good things to eat, uh, to, to kind of take off your plate, your own plate. Yeah.
15:22
Because it's too labor intensive and you, you just let the experts, you let the experts handle it. Yeah, exactly. [laughs] Well, for you, is cooking a political act? I... That's a great question. Um,
15:40
I'm gonna say yes with an asterisk. Yes. Okay. Um, I think yes in the sense that like, when I think of cooking, it's almost... it's hard for me to not think about a gathering table alongside it. Yeah.
15:55
And so for me, cooking is a sort of labor that allow, that helps facilitate bringing people together, which I do think can be a political act and often is a political act.
16:05
Um, and you know, I think I write about this in Gather Where. After the election, the 2024 election, the first thing that I did was call people and say, "Come over. I'm gonna cook, and we can commiserate together." Yeah.
16:19
"And we can, you know, talk about what this means for us." Um,
16:24
and I don't know that I'd ever done that before, but it really solidified to me how, how I see cooking as definitely related to politics in lots of different ways. Um, and specifically in ways that are about like
16:39
the so-called private space of the home and the kitchen. Um, like obv- like restaurants and chefs have been involved in political stuff all the time, but like seeing our homes as an organizing space, I think. Um, yeah.
16:54
That's how I would say I think cooking is political. Um, well, thank you so much for taking the time today. Thank you. That was amazing. Thank you.
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