“We’ve Won a Certain Kind of Argument”

A conversation with Pam Brunton on landscape cuisine, writing history, and public imagination.

I’ve been a massive fan of Between Two Waters by chef and author Pam Brunton ever since it was brought to my attention for a blurb pre-publication. I chose it for the Desk Book Club because I knew it would strike a really great chord with this audience for its historical perspective and imaginative reach. We hosted Brunton for a Salon discussion of the book, and it follows as video, audio, and a text transcript, so you can choose your favorite style.

Pam: “The whole of—Western, particularly—society is skewed in favor of the male experience, the patriarchy, if you will. And kitchens are no different. They're reflective of that. So when you're talking about things improving in kitchens, you're talking about other workplaces as well. And although there may be positive discrimination, recruitment drives and things in politics, in the law, in the police, whatever it is, unless you get to a point where women are at the decision-making level as well, and there's enough of them and they are being enabled to follow through their own decisions, then all you're doing is counting heads in a system that remains unchanged, where women are to behave like their predecessors, right? So, yeah, thinking differently is what's required.”